Episode 4: Staying Grounded with Manu Sainsily

In this episode, I speak with multifaceted artist Manu Sainsily where we discuss how he keeps up with emerging tech in near real-time by journaling on social channels (more than 500 days in a row and counting!), while staying true to his core values. We talk about the 'family we choose' and the value of having a place of belonging, methods of staying grounded across shifting realities, and the profound topic of what it means to be human amidst AI and digital immersion.

This one hits a vibration that I hope you'll resonate with!

Recommended reading:
Simon Sinek's "Start with the why"

About Manu
Manuel is a renowned futurist, artist, and advocate at Unity, where he pioneers advancements in mixed realities and AI. He also teaches XR Design at the prestigious McGill University in Montreal. Born in Guadeloupe, Manuel is celebrated for his multidisciplinary approach to technology and art, and his advocacy for ethics, diversity, and inclusion. As the cofounder of The Haptics Club podcast and the first French/Caribbean artist to collaborate with OpenAI, Manuel has been featured in Fast Company and The Guardian for his work with Dall-E. His exhibition in Montreal, Caribéanofuturisme, introduced ChatGPT to over 900 attendees and led to his collaboration with Meta at the Oculus Gallery in New York. A trailblazer in the tech industry, Manuel continues to inspire, innovate, and educate on the global stage.

Find him on all socials @manu.vision

About Lianne
Lianne is an experienced Augmented Reality strategist and partnerships expert who most recently worked with Meta where she supported the world's top AR creators to create impactful experiences that leverage the latest in immersive technology. She has worked with the world's leading brands and agencies to design and execute innovative AR campaigns that drive engagement, brand awareness, and revenue.

Lianne's expertise lies in matching creators and compelling AR experiences that deliver measurable results, from product launches and interactive installations to marketing campaigns and educational programs. As an accomplished speaker and thought leader in the immersive arts space, Lianne is dedicated to sharing her knowledge and inspiring the next generation of creators and innovators.

Find her on Instagram and connect with her on LinkedIn.

Transcript

Lianne:

Hello everyone and welcome to the Creative Catalyst podcast. I am your host, Lianne Baron. It’s my hope to bring some of the most innovative and inspiring minds that are currently producing work in the creative spaces right now. And I am incredibly honored to have a great friend, an innovator, someone who is really pushing boundaries on all fronts right now, actually, which is something we're going to talk about. His name is Manu Sainsily and he is here with me from Montreal, Canada. Did you wanna say hello to our audience? 

Manu.Vision:

Yes,

Lianne:

Thank you for joining me. And like I just alluded to right there, you have a really fascinating background. You have a lot of experience, but rather than me trying to tell everybody about where you've come from, if you don't mind just letting them know how you've landed where you are today, that would be amazing.

Manu.Vision:

Yeah, so right now my current role is I'm a senior advocate for AI at Unity Technologies, which is a game engine. Most people know about it. And in parallel, I'm a freelance artist, futurist. I come from Guadeloupe, which is a teeny French island in the Caribbean. And I'm also a teacher for Excel design at McGill University in Montreal. And how I landed where I am right now is by basically... kicking off my career in computer science, being inspired by my dad, which was always into technology. As a child, I was just spending so many times with him when he was working on his laptops, on his computers, early Mac and stuff like that. I got a gaming console very early on as well. And then I ended up doing computer science, a master degrees, moved to Canada when I was 20 years old, leaving everyone behind me in Guadalupe in the heat for facing the snow, as you know, from Toronto.

Lianne:

Oh, yeah.

Manu.Vision:

And ... honestly, it's been a blast. I never looked back. I've been a Canadian for 13 years now. And pursuing a career in design, specifically UI UX, made me realize that website and mobile apps is not enough. There's so much more platforms that needs help in terms of user experience. So then I transitioned to AR about 2011, VR 2014, and then more XR broadly when I joined IBM in 2017. Transitioned to haptics research UX 2019 then COVID hit and I joined Unity in 2021 and now I work mostly in AI and XR.

Lianne:

So what I'm getting from this is a lot of tools, right? You have literally probably the most diverse toolbox and depth of knowledge of those tools that you're using. And you know what, in this industry, in emerging tech and existing tech, I think one of the biggest challenges that we have is keeping up with everything that's kind of happening, where it's been, where it's going, and you do that really, really well. So I have a question for you, because I feel like it seems very, easy and it's not to say that is so like demystify this for us in that you are able to kind of keep up with trends not only are you able to keep up with it but you're able to kind of take where you've been apply that knowledge get creative and then you have like you add that element of creativity for the output but then what you're doing is you're also helping to educate folks by sharing out and it almost seems in real time. So when you have this kind of really broad process that you are actually producing and learning and experimenting, how do you actually manage to fit that? We all have 24 hours, so I don't understand. Do you have an extra one that we don't know about? Do tell us if you have a formula or if you have some tips on how folks can continue to just explore and still have time to eat and sleep somewhere in between.

Manu.Vision:

Yeah, I didn't go to the gym, right?

Lianne:

Oh yes, very important, yes.

Manu.Vision:

You know what, it's such a great question because I had to think about that myself lately, especially as I was moving from design to more advocacy, I was like, Hey, am I going to lose grip on what's happening? Like as a designer, it was easy to always be on top of trends. Like literally part of my work was to do, we call it veil in French. That's when you look at, you know, websites updates and everything at the end of the week. I was basically doing newsletters for my internal teams with Slack and everything. And I realized, Hey, I could do that for external folks as well. It doesn't have to be under NDA when it's general thinking.

Lianne:

Mmm.

Manu.Vision:

And I realized that my audience was always reacting better when I was sharing my process and not just the output. But I think when it comes down to is because of my family, like my mom and my dad are both multidisciplinary. Like they don't just do one thing. They are great at many multiple things. And they never tried to put me in a box and be like, This is only what you're going to do, right? I had to choose my own career. Initially, I was really good in everything at school, and it was tough for me to define what I would be tomorrow. I even signed up for a PhD in becoming a doctor. And the months before actually starting school, then I switched the flip and moved to potentially being a pharmacist. And a month later, I ended up studying computer science, which has nothing to do with all of that,

Lianne:

Wow,

Manu.Vision:

right?

Manu.Vision:

And towards my entire computer science degree, there was no design courses. I just knew I wanted to do design because it was a way for me to merge art and tech. But even there, I realized it was not enough. Design was also still a box. So how I do that, and I do have a formula, is, and this is a way that I hope that a lot of people can get inspired for, from when it comes to social media content production, is that I don't see it as a job or as a to-do, but more as a journaling exercise. So what I do is that every day I'm passionate about many different things. So however I wake up that day and what inspires me, whether it is from something I showed, I found on the internet or maybe something I saved at bookmark the day before. And usually it's in the 24, 48-hour span I know what I'm going to be inspired by that day. Then I just carve sometimes that day, play with it. And whatever is the output is what I'm sharing. That's why a lot of my content sometimes is not really very c- complex in terms of process. I do have some more in-depth videos and things like that when I really want to make a point. But when it's just about, hey, what am I doing with this new tool today? I'm just playing with it, seeing what I can get out of it, try to make it make sense with my values, which are always nature, culture, future. So it has to be something that reminds me of my culture from Guadeloupe or the Caribbean. It has to be something that is mindful about the world and the ecosystem. And it has to be something futuristic, which tech is in general. By putting that together, then I try to format the content output into those frames and put it out there in an educational format. Sometimes it's as shallow as, this is the tool I use, figure it out. And sometimes it's more like, hey, I actually recorded the entire process. You can get inspired from it. And I use it as a drawing exercise because it feels less planned.

Manu.Vision:

Actually, it's crazy. Most people are like, how are you doing this? Like I've been creating content now for 500 days in a row and plus,

Lianne:

Amazing.

Manu.Vision:

and it's always the day off. I never plan in advance. It's if you see a video from me today, I worked on it today. I never do it for the day after because then it loses the purpose of journaling.

Lianne:

Yeah, I think that's absolutely brilliant advice. And I wanna just really triple down on this. The fact that what you're doing too is you're not getting incredibly precious about the production of it, obviously, because if you were, then that's kind of a stopping block. And I don't think either you're so concerned with how it's going to be received or who's gonna be looking at it or worried so much about the POV, not to exclude them. Like, obviously you're gonna be aware of of your audience and very sensitive to that, and will likely form some of the content based on what you hope that they'll want to hear. But at the same time, it sounds like this is kind of almost intuitive, you know, and you're not second guessing yourself. Maybe that's the other thing too, and that you can move with such speed and ease. And I wonder, is that something that you've refined over time, because I know that, you know, they always say that the greatest leaders are able to make decisions quickly. And this is essentially just, you know, part of that process of making a decision. Like, this is what I want to do. this is how I'm going to do it. And just kind of going with it and not tripling back and going, oh, should I do this or should I maybe tweak it this way? So you can move quickly. So I wonder, have you always had that capacity to do that or was there a refinement over time? Or is it, again, like we were just before we jumped in, we're like, it's like a muscle, all of this creativity, the processes and that you have to flex it to get it stronger. Is that how it was for you or

Manu.Vision:

I think it's exactly that.

Lianne:

okay.

Manu.Vision:

It's something that had to be iterated upon. Like the design methodology is still something that's core to my work. And

Manu.Vision:

initially I was really, I would say, aware of social media and how people will think about me, like making sure I'm not saying something that could make me cancelled or sharing thoughts that are inclusive. And I have a lot of people in my entourage that are disabled or not coming from different backgrounds or different speak French or English. There was a lot of questions at the beginning. And it was tough for me to even find my voice because I was so blocked by all these questions that I was doing nothing. I was generating no content for a while. And then I realized, wait a second. It feels like I'm doing that for someone else. And by doing that, and I'm creating a lot of barriers, and I'm helping no one. So I switched it to, and that's coming from a lot of books reading. I have some of those books over there. I recommend Simon Sinek start with the why, for example. Thinking about my why made me feel confident about whatever I would be saying needs to follow that moral compass. And if it does, then it feels good. Regardless of the other question I might have, that's okay, just jump into it. Then my metric is not the views, is not the audience. Actually, my success metric is trying to help at least one person, and that one person can be yourself. So if you're doing it at least for you, and if you resonate with at least one more people, It is already a success. Now, if you have a million more, amazing, keep doing it. But it is never the end goal. The end goal is to putting this outside. Because if you're not, no one can hear what you're thinking. And I'm doing it for me also as a way to look back. Because you will always have something hard happening into your life. If we were too young, probably didn't happen yet. And if we're towards the end of our life, maybe we already went through a lot of things. But regardless, we're all going through something at some point. Being able to look back at what you've been in. feeling, what you've been producing, what did you think about in that moment in time, is kind of a way for me to kind of being okay that everything will always be okay because I'm able to adapt. So it's also a feeling, it's therapeutic for me to do that.

Lianne:

And I think it takes a braveheart, especially in the beginning, to be able to put yourself out there and to be able to understand. Like you say, there are people that you may not intentionally offend, and so you're gonna learn. And during that process of learning, you're doing it kind of a bit more publicly, and you'll have to own up to those things. But that's also another form of teaching folks, like how to gracefully...

Manu.Vision:

Yes.

Lianne:

flow into your learning and how to up level yourself. And you're also, again, you're teaching other folks how to do the same thing. That's what I really love and appreciate you. And I wanna say thank you for doing that because it does take, like I said, a brave heart and someone who's really deeply grounded, as you said there, in their moral set and truly understanding things that are meaningful. I know that you have a really pure and a very good heart and that's why. I feel like you know that too. And so as, and because it's been instilled in you and your family and what a gift, right? So you have been given this wonderful, I think this basket of gifts and this circumstance that's allowed you to kind of come from a really like deeply well-rooted grounded foundation. And that, you know, regardless of how you're going to share what it is that you're learning, if you have to pivot and change, you'll do so in a way, like I said, of grace. that you would be able to kind of show other folks how to be able to do that. I love, thank you for sharing that because I feel like that's so valuable. Yeah, absolutely. And I feel like sometimes, you know, we, in our community, we have such diverse backgrounds of folks that maybe don't have the privilege of having that kind of family or that stability. And that's why it's even more important for those of us that do have that to kind of emulate and show folks that maybe you don't have it, but guess what? Family, the nice thing about the family that we choose, is that in this community, you can join. And I know that you're very open arms. You and I, I feel like we're family, that we've adopted one another as family.

Manu.Vision:

I agree.

Lianne:

There are so many things about you that I resonate with that for myself, I haven't had, but in your friendship and like what I've heard from you and the relationships that you have, and like I said, you're so welcoming and without pretense and without expectation for anything in return, and that's what family does, right? And so. I think leaning in heavily, let's talk a little bit about the community and the fact that you are sharing so readily. Are there some nice gems or there's some nice things that you're finding in being so vulnerable with your community that

Manu.Vision:

Oh yes.

Lianne:

Okay, give me something, I love this, because honestly, you know, we've talked about this a ton of times, it's my bloodline, it's what's kept me alive over the last few years especially of having such a strong community of like-minded folks, right, so do share, tell me some of your favorites.

Manu.Vision:

I think it's karma in a way, like many people might say they don't believe in it or not. You know, I'm not a religious person, for example, and that's totally okay. And I respect everyone's thoughts and point of views. And but there is something right that we all share and we're all humans. And you said it well, when I said it's my family, I was not necessarily referring to my blood family. Actually, when I mean family, I mean the people that I choose in my circle. I'm very cautious about who I let enter that circle. Sometimes you might think you're part of it because you're in a larger circle and that's okay, but that core circle, the one that influences you, the people you look up to, they can be friends, they can be colleagues, they can be, sometimes I love that the pen friend, the people that you never met, but you have a lot of conversation with online.

And a lot of these people end up being people you end up meeting in real life, and then you become closer friends. But I have a lot of those in that community. A lot of people that I've only met in one event, and we share it sometimes a bond that is closer to one of my cousin, right? And these people sometimes are not even seeing themselves as leaders or as people that influences you, they just have a very specific set of values that matches yours and going back to your question about what is the gem that I'm getting out of doing this is that karma. Like you can almost sense it that by giving away, you get so much more back. And it's not into a monetary value. It's not into follower accounts. It's not into those very digital metrics. It's really more. into the sense of helping out and giving what you have as a gift that other people might not be privileged to have and giving that away to the people that might not have it. And this feels good. That's your real feeling of being part of something, whether it is society, whether it is the community, whether it is the human experience. I feel like we need to teach more of those soft skills to children, especially nowadays when you're born into the digital era. It's really hard. There's a lot of cyber bullying. You're as a mom, you're probably out facing a lot of those questions with your children as well. And I think that being able to teach that, I would say that more social aspect of how to deal with those emotions and how to adapt that into your work is essential because then when this is grounded, everything else is becoming simple. Like you're not double thinking about anything else.

Lianne:

Yeah, I love as well, you know, you're talking about not just the community that we're having digitally, but and being able to meet people in real life. And so we're also in this very unusual space and time right now, where we are literally we have one foot in these dimensions, you know, where we have this mixed reality. We even then have the interjection of AI influencing a lot of what that's going to look like, how we're communicating with one another. And so I wonder as we're going through this mix and as we're exploring this new territory, do you have any strategies on keeping, you know, one foot grounded, obviously in digital, this is your world and you have to understand what's happening there. But in reality, is it meetups? Is it, I know that you went camping and you do frequently go camping. So those types of things, do you have as well strategy for that or things that you gravitate towards doing? I don't want to necessarily say in both realms if there's one that you prefer over the other, or how do you flow between two? Because we are literally in that space right now, right? In between both worlds.

Manu.Vision:

I have this conversation literally almost every week with people either that I work with or friends in that same realm and they're always also sharing how they are doing. I think it's very personal. Some people might not agree with the method that I might share, but for me, I'm geek. Like I love being a geek. That's something that defines me. I'm not even ashamed of the title. I think it became something cool nowadays. And just absorbing and being okay with who I am is the first step because then you're not... already mad at yourself before even looking at what people think about you. And the second part, and I literally had that conversation 30 minutes before with Noland, if Noland is listening, you might, you might hear yourself there. It is the fact that sometimes you need to also be unapologetically yourself. Just be careful when you're in a society that you're not hitting the wrong spot and saying something that might hurt someone. But if you're yourself, you should not care about what other people that get your message will think about. Think about the one that will get it. Think about who you're gonna inspire. And that's fine if not everybody resonates with you. You don't need to be liked by 7 billion people

Lianne:

That's right.

Manu.Vision:

.. to exist. What's important is that you feel confident, even in silence with yourself, that this is what I sound like, this is what I like hearing. When I hear myself back, I agree with this, then that's fine. Everything else is just magic powder.

Then the second part is, especially between digital and real life, like I'm Caribbean. That's something I cannot change. I was born on an island. Nature is just part of me. I can, you see it in the background. So when I don't feel like I'm touching ground or when I feel like I'm losing that grip, I need to put myself in position to just force it. So because I'm very like workaholic, it's tough sometimes to realize, hey, have I been online too much or I might have been in front of a computer for too long? So. Having an amazing partner, my fiancee helps me sometimes just be like, Hey, you should probably get out of that office for now.

Or going outside and literally touching grass, putting your foot in the floor in the morning and taking a little walk. It doesn't have to be a heavy gym routine. I didn't go to the gym for the past three weeks and I feel great in my body because I've put myself in positions where I'm breathing air. I'm looking at water or I'm going to touch a tree. And, you know, like, I feel like those things, even though they seem simple. In a world where we spend a lot of times on mobile phone, on computers, in VR, it's easy sometimes to lose what's important in core, but because my grandmother is always in my head telling me those things, like I used to be a kid and be like, ah, it doesn't matter, you know, like I'll do what I want. But also we were born in a society where we had the before and the after. I'm not from the generation that had folks when they came up. So I needed to know what was. the childhood version of me going outside and just playing with wood sticks and being sure that this is something I'm okay with. And nowadays I don't have wood sticks anymore, but what would be the example of the equivalent of that? Maybe that's spending some time with my friend without using my phone. Maybe that's going on the call with my family once a week, regardless of who that family is again. Maybe that's setting time for myself where I'm not thinking about my work. Like I literally do. So camping is one of those, but when I cannot go camping, or if you're someone disabled that literally cannot get out of your house, maybe that means choosing peace and having a four hours or an entire Saturday or weekend where you're not using your social media, you're spending time reading a book, you're looking at your favorite show. It can be a TV still, but at least you're not consuming content that is actively in time with reality. You're making a pause for yourself. You're creating a little Oasis. So. That can be in VR. I literally had therapeutic session in VR with people. And I think that's also very healthy to think about using those tools in that way.Lianne:

Yes, and I think this is the great, and I'm finding that we have takeaways for each of the conversations that I'm having. This is a big one because it's so attainable. I love how you're saying there, it doesn't even have to be a big grand gesture. It doesn't have to be a full weekend away. You don't have to do an extreme escapism, right? It can literally be so much as just setting your phone aside and just giving very conscious, very being specific, present.

Lianne:

yeah, presence in the moment of breath even, something like that. And I think we all, you know, I don't want it to be preachy or anything like this. This is just a gentle reminder. I think we all kind of know it. And also validation and sometimes permission. I think people feel like, I don't want to ever speak on anyone's behalf, but some people do just want to keep up. And we were talking about this, you know, how do you do all the things that this can very much be included as part of that process and given. just as much priority and probably should. So maybe it's just permission for people to include this and remember that this is where we came from. We are still deeply human. We are still existing so much in these bodies and the spaces that we were born into. So to continue to celebrate that, even though it's easy for us to get lost in the excitement and the intrigue of what's new and emerging, to always have that balance. So I think that's a lovely takeaway, yeah.

Manu.Vision:

thank you for that. I totally agree. And I think there is one more thing I want to say that connects this conversation with what you said before, which is as we're going more and more into this AI driven world, let's say, and XR driven world, and those two technologies are like a perfect match in heaven, like it's gonna really advance the way that we even think about humans and society. It is almost forcing me to rethink about what does it mean to be human, which is something you don't really need to think about. I agree, like we don't want to sound preachy and tell people how to be human. But I realized through those experiments, through those exploration, through those books I'm reading, that I might have missed or lost sometimes a part of my humanity by being so focused on my digital side of my work that I'm thankful for those conversations to be happening right now because of the kind of dark side of those technology forcing us to have those conversations. That's why we're seeing more and more ethical conversation. because we're seeing the unethical happen in real time. And for AI in particular, there is a bigger conversation to be had about what is consciousness or the way that we treat other human beings even at a hierarchy level or other species and animals and so on. And then thinking about how we treat robots is gonna be part of the question. Like we had books for more than a century treating about the subject and movies about that. And we always look at that as sci-fi, but. We still have slavery happening even more right now than years before in real time. In this room right now, we still have terrible animal cruelty happening right now. We still have people that are using tools and discussing and talking with AI in a toxic way, even though they don't need to, because they feel the power of being able to control someone else. And those things are not necessarily going to be solving themselves. You need to have that conversation. You need to face your demons. And we're not perfect. Human beings are just a weird moment in time, like you said, and everything is happening at the same time. So being able to have those conversations, ground yourself, and think about your moral compass is becoming more important than ever, because there will be challenges coming where the ones that are not doing that job will be left out or will be suffering. So it's important to recognize that without having to be preachy, without having to be like, I know all the answers, I know nothing. I'm just learning and sharing in real time so that we can all learn.

Lianne:

Yes, and this is exactly it. I wanna keep kind of going on that flow of what you're saying about having these conversations. Just the fact that we're having these conversations and now anyone who's kind of listening has the opportunity to respond to it. That's the one thing we can always control is you're always given information, you're always given all these inputs. The only thing we can control is how we respond to it. And I think the more quickly that people start... having more of these conversations, understanding where they stand and say, it doesn't matter, like, you know, you can have whatever stance you want, but have an opinion, right? And start to build that opinion. And then that forms your value set, right? And this goes all the way back to the thing that you were talking about, which then becomes, as you say, your moral compass. It helps you to refine what it is that you're doing on the daily. It helps to kind of hone everything in to give you purpose. and then give you confidence and authority in everything that you're kind of presenting without worrying about how the world will respond to you because you've done due diligence, you've listened to the conversations, you've formed an opinion, you feel comfortable with that. If you don't currently feel comfortable about your opinion, you're still questioning, I think that's amazing too, because you're in a space of exploration. And I hope that maybe we never decide on one particular view and that we're always open to being flexible. But at least having, and like I kind of see it as a position. Yeah, a North Star, but also having like a grounding. We keep talking about grounding. Having your feet firmly planted. It's not to say that you're not gonna step over once or twice and shift where you're standing. You're very capable and allowed to do that. But as long as you're standing firmly, it doesn't matter. It's if you're kind of shifting and floating and you're constantly, there's a chaos about the jumping around, I think, that doesn't land well with your own energy or people around you. So I think as long as you can kind of. decide what it is that you're standing for literally, and then plant your feet. And if you need to shift everyone's well, amazing, but do so with intent and with purpose. So I think that that's a really great and yet another great takeaway about why we're having these conversations now and being given the opportunity to react to the things that we're seeing and that are kind of coming across our current landscape and our vision, yeah. Yeah.

Manu.Vision:

Well said.Manu.Vision:

There is also this powerful realization sometimes, especially as a versatile, I would say, artist or multidisciplinary. My doc is always filled with many apps. My Gmail is not at zero. I have many unanswered emails. I have signed up my email with so many surveys to be able to have so many alpha and beta access. And I'm still doing it. And I'm doing it with grace and with understanding that it doesn't have to be perfect because I want to be in those conversations. I want to be able to play with these tools. And I don't need to master all of them, but I do, if you ask me, like, what are my key softwares? I do have a few that I know that if everything falls, if nothing else exists, what are the things that I know I feel confident and comfortable with? And when you find those, just spend time, invest in it. Don't think that, okay, this is just a passing time and then I move to something else. You will. And it's okay to explore as long as you have your core, I would say your core ecosystem and you feel confident about it and you're okay to invest. You also need to make that decision because it's going to always be easy to jump to what's never what's always new. What's Chinese. What's the next thing. And sometimes you feel like maybe nothing is for me. I don't know who I am. I don't know what I like. And I felt like that a lot the past three to four years. when I had to rethink about my way, when I had to define what I was, it was tough. I was like, am I a designer? Am I a speaker? Am I an artist? And sometimes my tagline keeps changing and people are like, what are you doing?

Lianne:

Yeah.

Manu.Vision:

And they don't need to know what you're doing. You need to know what you're doing. And when you know, and if you have those values that don't, they don't need to resonate with a specific tool or practice or role or job title, the more abstract and subskill based those values are, the easier it will be to adapt them to technology. So start with the initial why. Think about those values. For me, it's nature, culture, future. I tattooed it, so if I even forget all those memories, it's on my arm. I'm doing this type of thing for myself. You don't need to go that far. if you know that, then it's easy.

Lianne:

That's amazing.

Lianne:

Yeah, again, it's the foundation, right? So I'm just gonna have, I think we're kinda come close to time, but I do have one question for you. I wanted to kinda talk on what you're saying there and that you can spread yourself wide and you can spread yourself thin. But like you say, you have these kind of core pillars that you've gone a little bit deeper on. So my question and maybe advice that you can give to folks is how did you decide? Like, how did you know? Again, is it intuitive? Is it based on metrics? Is it a combination of both? Because again, people are gonna be faced with the same problem, so maybe we can give insight as to how you were able to choose the things became that your core pillars, and then hopefully they can use that strategy themselves if they don't know how to find a ground themselves in those few, yeah.

Manu.Vision:

I used to think that was a tough question to answer and the reply is as simple as what brings you joy

Lianne:

amazing.

Manu.Vision:

If you're playing with something and isn't frustrating Frustrating doesn't mean the opposite of joy. Sometimes it's frustrating But are you happy when it works? Are you feeling good when you're playing with this tool? Are you feeling good when you're playing with these people or with these toys? It's a feeling that comes from your heart. It doesn't come from your brain. It's not methodology call You have to follow your heart and if it is good doing it. That is all. Maybe that's not going to be the Chinese new toy that everybody's talking about tomorrow. But when you come back to it, when you're in your quiet space, when no one is looking, does that tree fall in the forest? Do you hear it? Yes, then keep cutting that tree.

Lianne:

Amazing. I love it. And I love that you said that Manu, because this is the recurring theme. And actually what's happening, you all, no one knows what any other person has said on the podcast. But when you're going to see these all together in succession, it's, it is now becoming super clear to those of you who are continuously listening that the thing that resonates and the way that we are choosing what we give our attention to is based on how much joy it brings you. This is a consistent answer that keeps coming up. So it's not me, I don't think I pulled that out of you. I think you volunteered

Manu.Vision:

not biased.

Lianne:

that on your own, yeah, yeah. So just, you know, and I love that that's the thing because I as well resonate so much with that. And it's such an easy way to make a decision. You don't have to have a degree. You do not have to know anything but what you're feeling, which is the most basic and simple thing. You just literally have to understand and tune into what it is. that brings you joy, that evokes that kind of emotion that resonates well with you. So I think that's a beautiful place to leave it at. I think that we could talk, you know that we do, that we could talk forever about all kinds of things. So I do feel like at some point in the very near future, if you don't mind, you come back and we can just keep chatting

Manu.Vision:

Love that.

Lianne:

because who knows, you know, even two, three months where we're gonna be at and kind of what the world is doing. I think we'll need a regroup to just touch base and see how things are going. All right, I love that too. Thank you. And...

Manu.Vision:

Thank you for this great moment.

Lianne:

Yeah, for sure. I feel, you know, it's always an honor. We always are, I think, very supportive of one another. And if we can also share that out to the community, both of us, I don't want to speak on your behalf, but my DMs are always open. We're always in a place where anything that you've heard today, if there's more that you want to drill down on that resonated with you all, feel free to either share it. You know, if you're not, if you don't feel comfortable doing that. definitely talk to us in the DMs, because we're here for it, right? And actually on that note, if you don't mind just sharing your socials where people can find you, then they can continue to see your journaling in real time.

Manu.Vision:

So it's Manu Vision on every platform, Manu.Vision on Instagram. It's also my website, so it's easy. www.manu.vision. Like the vision.Lianne:

Perfect, so easy, I love that. Thank you. Always a joyful conversation with you and insightful and thank you for your inspiration and for taking time to be with me today.

Manu.Vision:

Yay! And thanks for listening, everyone!

Lianne:

Yeah, yes, appreciate it. And as always, my sign off is that I do hope you all stay curious and keep on creating!