Episode 2: Authentically You with Mitsuko Ono

Today's guest Mitsuko Ono shares how she found her distinct personal style, how she uses JOY as a measurement of success, how limiting your resources can actually ignite imagination, where to find inspiration if you experience creative burnout, and shares advice for those just entering the immersive arts.

About Mitsuko
Mitsuko Ono is a Japan based creative artist known for developing surreal AR effects. She’s worked in post-production and digital advertising agencies before switching to AR in 2019. She has a background in multimedia design, motion graphics, and video editing. She’s created over 200 AR effects and is also one of the few members of the Meta Spark Partner Network since 2020. 

Mitsuko has created effects for Meta, McDonald’s, Tinder, several Japanese brands, Unilever, celebrities like Miley Cyrus, Flume, and events like Coachella. She is featured in Meta’s recent campaign, Creators of Tomorrow and her works have also been featured in Meta Spark AR’s top 10 effects for years 2019 and 2020, Paris Digital Art Month and Cannes Lions.

Follow Mitsuko's work:
Instagram
TikTok

About Lianne
Lianne is an experienced Augmented Reality strategist and partnerships expert who most recently worked with Meta where she supported the world's top AR creators to create impactful experiences that leverage the latest in immersive technology. She has worked with the world's leading brands and agencies to design and execute innovative AR campaigns that drive engagement, brand awareness, and revenue.

Lianne's expertise lies in matching creators and compelling AR experiences that deliver measurable results, from product launches and interactive installations to marketing campaigns and educational programs. As an accomplished speaker and thought leader in the immersive arts space, Lianne is dedicated to sharing her knowledge and inspiring the next generation of creators and innovators.

Find her on Instagram and connect with her on LinkedIn.

Transcript

Lianne:

Hello everyone and welcome to the Creative Catalyst podcast. My name is Lianne Baron. I am your host today. And it's my hope that through these conversations with some of the brightest and most innovative creatives that we have in the industry today, those that are exploring different works through immersive media, as well as all different types of traditional media as well, coming to have chats about how it is that they come to create the incredible impactful work that you see out in the world today. And I am really, really honored and glad to have my good friend and amazing creative who is well-versed in all kinds of different experiences, Mitsuko Ono, who is joining me today. Thanks for joining me, Mitsuko.

Mitsuko Ono:

Hi everyone, thanks for having me.

Lianne:

For those of you who aren't familiar with where Mitsuko is, she's in Japan, I'm in Toronto, Canada, and thank you for joining me. I know it's quite early. For those of you who actually aren't super familiar with your journey and what it is that you do specifically, I would love if you could share with our audience how it is that you have found yourself exactly where you are today.

Mitsuko Ono:

I'm Mitsuko Ono. I'm based in Osaka, Japan and I'm a creative designer. I used to work in the post-production industry. So I used to do like video editing and stuff, but I turned to AR in 2019 and life has been like really good since then.

Lianne:

What was it that brought you into AR? Was it something that you saw and you just said, hey, I'm going to do that? Or was there some specific moment where you said, okay, it's time for me to switch to AR?

Mitsuko Ono:

I think it was the time when I was just scrolling through my Instagram feed and I saw a story by my friend and she was using this AR filter and then I asked her like how did you do that and she said you have to follow a bunch of creators because they make these and then if you follow them you can use them. So I think the first one I found was like the meat. The meat effect like your face is kind of like in the package, the meat package and From then on, I followed a bunch of creators. One of them was Noland [Chaliha].

Lianne:

Yes.

Mitsuko Ono:

And one day Noland posted about Spark AR because I was really wondering, how do they make these effects? And then from that on, I downloaded Spark AR and everything, the rest was history.

Lianne:

Yeah, because once you get in there, it's kind of like, it's like a rabbit hole really, because I feel like getting into the software, that's how you actually start realizing A, the potential and B, what you don't know, right? Because you're like, oh, I can do this, I can do that. And then you realize, oh, but can I do this? And as soon as you start realizing that there's this potential to do more, then you start asking and looking around to say, okay, yeah, other people have done this. How do I figure it out? So are you self-taught then? Would you say that you were self-taught or did you follow any kind of curriculum? 

Mitsuko Ono:

I'm entirely self-taught with everything I know on the programs. From Spark, I just asked a bunch of people. I even messaged just random people how to do some stuff. And some of them replied, which I'm very thankful for. And I also know how to use Effect House for TikTok. They have this Discord channel where they just teach people how to do things. So I'm also very grateful for that because I learned how to do a lot of things because of it. But yeah, I'm completely self-taught. If I don't know how to do anything, I'll just search the internet. And for Spark, they have this online community. I just type in the keywords. And most of the time, the problems I have already been answered by someone else. So I suggest just typing your question there. it comes out. Everyone has had the same problem, so most probably your question has already been answered.

Lianne:

So you know what's interesting and why I think I actually started this podcast is the one thing you can't learn from someone else is your own creativity, your own voice, right? And that's something that you are really well known for, Mitsuko. I wanted to make sure that you have one of like the first prominent conversations here because you do it incredibly well. And when I say do it, I mean ... You know, actually Luke in our last podcast, we were talking about how the strength of, of someone showing up in this very competitive space where there's so much noise in our feeds, not just social, but just everywhere. There is so much noise. And for someone to show up with a very distinct visual style, where you can instantly like within 0.5 seconds of me observing your work, I know instantly it's Mitsuko's work. Now that is something that you can't search in any community or they can't. I don't think really be taught for people to actually articulate their own style because it is so unique to themselves. So I guess what I want to explore with you today is more about how it is that you came upon your style. And then I'll give you some more questions after because I really as well want to know how you built confidence once you found that style to continue to pursue it. So let's, let's ask that first question, which is when, when you kind of started exploring whether it was AR, wherever you're producing very unique work, how would you say that you kind of came about the inspiration for the style that you're so well known for right now?

Mitsuko Ono:

Before I didn't know my style, even before I started AR when I was doing like motion graphics and stuff, I really didn't have my own style. So it was just through AR that I found like my own kind of creative identity. And it's because I think I just did like a bunch of effects. And at first, I just did like some random ones that I think, oh, maybe this would go viral. And I think that's... not like the correct mindset if you're trying to find what your creative style is. I think it's the way to find out how is by being true to yourself. And when I did that, before I was kind of like really intimidated by other creators like for example. people who create shaders, I wanted to do that too but my mind wouldn't let me because that's for smart people.

And I just accepted what my strong points are and I just went ahead and made what I wanted to do and then I kept on doing that. And I didn't care if it looked perfect or not because of course there's also this 4MB limit before. So I was just like... just go do your thing, do what makes you happy. And funny enough, when I do the weird type of effects, I'm enjoying myself so much, I'm literally laughing while I do it. And I think to myself, I don't know if I can say this, like, WTF 

Lianne:

Yeah

Mitsuko Ono:

hell are you thinking? like what the fuck are you thinking? And if I show it to my husband and he's like, what the fuck is that? And yeah, so I like it so much. I like it when like I'm literally laughing and literally like shocking my husband with what I create. I'm so excited to show it to the world and I'm so lucky that they like it as well. So I don't know, it's kind of luck and also just creating and creating, creating for you. For me, that's it.

Lianne:

I love that. That's the formula. And I agree completely. I'll validate exactly what you're saying because it's like, I think what you're saying too is that it doesn't, when you're trying to create something through the lens of the viewer and what the viewer might want, then suddenly you aren't being authentic to who you are as a creative, right? So it doesn't matter what it is that you're gonna be producing. what you're doing is listening for a signal from yourself. In your case, it's laughter, because I think your effects are incredibly joyous and entertaining. And so that's your signal for you. Once you kind of produce something and you're like, ding, okay, I'm laughing, this is entertaining for me. So isn't that the success then, is that you're not actually looking for validation or for approval from your audience. You're looking for approval from yourself. So I want the audience to take that piece away in that. If you're ever trying to explore what to do, don't do it through the lens of, oh, this is what's going to get me views or this is what people want me to do or what they expect because someone else is doing it. No, no, no. Quiet all that noise and sit there and say, regardless of how weird or quirky, like this is why you're the best example, Mitsuko, because

no one else does what you do. And you are like the queen of quirk. And that's why I love it. Because some of the stuff that you can put out there, like some people say it's gory, some people say it's gross, some people will say, you know, it's not their style and that's totally okay. The fact that you still find it entertaining and resonate and that you're able to kind of, still in confidence, share that out to the world. I think when people see that you're enjoying your work so much, then they too can't help but also enjoy it. Whether it's their style or not, that's irrelevant.

Mitsuko Ono:

Yes.

Lianne:

But the fact that I think that joy that you're putting into the work is being articulated through the final piece is something that we can all very much learn from. So I incredibly applaud you for having the courage and being persistent to continue to put the work out. I think it is so valuable. And I just want to say thank you not just for myself, but from the community for you being that kind of that pioneer, that guiding light to really take what it is that you love. regardless of what it looks like and who's done it or who has not done it before and put it on the world. It's it's highly commendable. 

Mitsuko Ono:

Thank you.

Lianne:

So I want to talk a little bit more too about finding that voice. So you're saying there a lot of repetition, a lot of just trying different things and then eventually what i'm hearing from you too is that it was like there was now some sort of consistency. So are there things that kind of keep recurring? This is I think one way that we can define styles too is something that is recurring in your work. Now I know because I'm familiar with your work, but is there something as you're creating it and you're like, this needs a bit more Matsuko. Like what in your mind do you say is your recurring theme or you're kind of the thread that kind of ties all of your work together? Do you have you thought about what that is or can you put it into words maybe to describe? Is it a palette? Is it a 3D treatment? Is it a combination of those things?

Mitsuko Ono:

I think maybe it's the theme? Because it's... I don't know. It's also sometimes because of the 3D objects that I make. It's sometimes because of the 3D objects that I use. Because I'm kind of not really good at 3D. So I just reuse the same assets. So maybe people can see the same assets from before. Also the theme like, I don't know, because my themes are really weird. So maybe they think that oh maybe only Mitsuko will think about this stuff. But yeah

Lianne:

I love that.

Mitsuko Ono:

I think it's the both, both of those like the assets that I use. And I really don't make my effects like... really perfect visual-wise because I can't really make it perfect and I think that's okay and people I think for people that's also okay because what matters is kind of like the experience that they have with it so I think that kind of the feeling that those three factors make is what kind of what like kinds of like tells the people that this is made by Mitsuko like It's not perfect. It has a weird theme. And it's using the same assets from all the other effects that she's made. So I don't know. Maybe it's like a combination of that. But yeah. I'm happy that people like it, that people like notice that it's from me. But yeah. I think that's my process.

Lianne:

And I think that's actually another great strategy that maybe people can self-impose meaning. And I actually, I had no idea that you were reusing assets because they do, you repurpose them so well and so differently. Like maybe when a couple of the feet maybe look familiar or like a leg or two as

having the babies kicking out. So maybe those are a little bit familiar, but I think this is a really good strategy too. So maybe if people are having a hard time figuring out. What their narrative that they're bringing to these stories and the way that they're telling the stories is to limit the kinds of assets that they're bringing. Say, if you could like challenge yourself, say you could only use say five of your favorite assets in your library, how many different ways can you retell that or repurpose those assets? Because I think right there, then suddenly you're gonna say, okay, if I limit those other options, then I have to consider how it is I'm approaching this in this other way of just sharing out the story or how I'm approaching the angles that I'm sharing out the information, whatever it is, that kind of thing to eliminate so many possibilities really helps to narrow it down. So I really like that as an option too, as people are exploring their creative voice. Another thing I wanna talk about too, and I mentioned it in the beginning, but I wanna come back to why it's important to have this creative voice, right? Now we're talking about probably a lot of personal effects that you've been building, right? And this is how you do your exploratory work. And I feel like, you know, a lot of people are often like, oh, I need to have a lot of variety in my portfolio because that's the only way I'm gonna get a whole bunch of different jobs. But let's talk about that. So do you feel like you have been tapped for opportunities because of your style? And then, I mean, I'm sure there's probably some variance on the type of work that you're doing that obviously you have to kind of conform to the idea that people are bringing to you. But would you say that maybe people are approaching you now because they're like, oh, this is a very kind of Mitsuko style or she would be able to bring her personality to this project because you have such a distinct style.

Mitsuko Ono:

There are some clients who approach me because of my style. Like they wanted some quirkiness in their designs, but most of the time the clients that approach me just approach me because they know, Oh, she can do effects. Like she can do like some animation and stuff. And you'll be surprised, but most of my clients work. are not really my style, they're of course like brand work. I have to stick to their brand guidelines. So I can't just go crazy on the designs for them. I have to follow rules, which I totally understand because this is the world that we live in, but I'm thankful for the ones that let me share my ideas. Let me put like kind of a little bit of me into their designs. And I think those are the best projects that I've had. And I really enjoy making those too. But I'm grateful for all the clients that comes to me with their trust. Because it's not easy to just see my work and think that, oh, let's trust this creator. That she can do our design for us. You know, like the craziness. And then suddenly switch to corporate. So yeah.

Lianne:

Yes. But I think that's a really good point that you bring up. I feel like there's this kind of romantic idea that you're going to become this AR creator, any type of creative person, and you kind of establish a style. And now that's the only style you can ever possibly work in. The reality is, like you say, you're going to take on some of these projects that perhaps it's completely different from the work that you usually do. And you may not even have any kind of design opportunity to contribute your creative to that. But like... like you were saying too, is that they already see that because you can produce the work and you've done it in your own style, what you're also doing is showcasing your technical capability, but you're doing it through your own voice and your own style, but you're still showing people, okay, I have 3D animation skills, I'm able to translate a concept and bring it into AR. Those kinds of small details is how you build trust with a client. But then you also have space, obviously. Maybe not as much time as you'd like to be able to do these personal projects. And that would lead me to my next question then, is if you're finding an imbalance, and I don't know if you're here yet, but if you've actually had to kind of say, okay, I just need to take a little bit of a break and do something for myself, or if you can't take a proper break, how do you fit in a little bit of creative play to make sure that you're not just sitting in the whole corporate grind and then kind of losing yourself in that? How do you find space to stay creative?

Mitsuko Ono:

Actually, I think I've actually gone through that burnout myself. There was a time that I couldn't think of any design to make. I just didn't have the usual, what do you call this, feeling that I want to make something. So what I did was take a break a bit and just, I bought other art stuff and then I made kind of my own. sculptures at home if you see these things at the back of my on my wall like I just kind of like experimented with some things and I don't know I think taking some time to rest from what you're doing especially if that kind of art form that you're doing is also a way for you to earn it. The working part, the earning part sometimes gives you the burnout. So I think it's also good to take a vacation from it, try other stuff, get your mind to be creative again using other mediums. And coming back again with all that new kind of inspiration that you had from other type of art mediums. And I know now I'm back at it, but I'm not posting like every week. Of course not creating a remake, but I'm trying to like create something new again today. So for example, recently I've been doing a lot of like storytelling AR FX and I'm currently working on like some projects right now also like for my own. I'm not yet like really ready to announce what it is because it's not yet like really perfect yet. But someday I will. But yeah. Taking a break is totally acceptable.

Lianne:

I think that's great.

Mitsuko Ono:

Every, yeah, every creative goes through it. It's not something to worry about. Just take a break, rest your mind and come back strong.

Lianne:

Yes. I couldn't have said it better myself and I completely aligned to what you're saying because when you think about it, and this is something that I'm trying to be very mindful of is it's almost like a creative flow that we as artists tap into. And like what you're saying, sometimes if it's the same medium that you're resourcing and taxing, sometimes that flow like any other like river, if there's not enough rain. that river is going to dry up.

And when it does dry up, you can't sit there looking at the ground going, where's the water? Where's the water? Where's the water? It's really best to kind of step away and see if there's another river somewhere else, maybe. I love that. And that river may look like something completely different and maybe now, um, a flow that's, you know, uh, a different element, let's say. So in your case, you're talking about how we've gone to different medium to explore different medium, something more tangible with your hands.

And I think that's another thing too. Some people may look at us and say, well, I don't have another medium to explore. So let's talk about that for two seconds. If you're kind of going through your toolbox of creative play things to work with, how do you know which one you're gonna invest your time in? Or maybe you have too many things to play with. How do you know as you're kind of scanning around going, what's the next thing I'm going to play with? What is the thing that's speaking to you? Like as you're kind of evaluating it, how do you know what you're gonna play with next?

Mitsuko Ono:

Um, for me, it's because I'm kind of a lazy person. Also, I've like just bought a lot of stuff to kind of have options for me because, I don't know, I feel like I have ADHD. I'm not diagnosed, I just feel like it. Like, I can't focus on just one thing. So, I bought a lot of arts and see what I'll do. So, there are some days where I don't do anything. Like, I'm just super lazy, I just scroll through my phone and that's a bad thing too, I think. But there are some days when if I just start with anything, just grab anything that you can and not really force yourself but kind of like think, what can I do with it and just experiment with something and then I noticed that if I do that I just start I just forced myself to just start something and just continue what I'm doing. Like anything actually, just adding something onto anything. And I don't know, I felt like that's kind of the way that my creativity flowed. So if you don't do anything, you'll be stuck there. So you just have to like do something. anything, grab something, the nearest thing you can find and think like what can I do with this? What can I add on to this that will make this look more interesting? And I think that kind of mindset worked for me because I was able to do some things and I really kind of enjoyed them. Sometimes I would just like dance inside here in my studio because I'm so happy like, look at what I did and then I'd be like full of inspiration again. Because if you just let your mind get stuck in that place where I don't have anything to do, I don't know, I don't know, if you just keep your mind in that kind of like mindset, then you're gonna get yourself stuck. So just try to get out of that negative space. I think that's just it.

Lianne:

I totally, totally agree. And I think, you know, just kind of speaking to what you're saying about going back and scrolling, there's a time and a place, right? That we look for inspiration and giving ourselves a break too. Like we don't always have to be super busy, but I think there has to be like a time limit on all of those things. Like you're saying you can't just sit in that space forever and ever. Like you will expire your time that you've allowed, you know, if you have time limits or whatever. Eventually same thing, you're gonna expire that. So then it's... It's kind of like, you know, you have to make do and be resourceful. So there's kind of two things here that I wanna bring out two key words that I'm getting. And the first one is to be resourceful. So like you say, you have things around you that are points of inspiration, so use them. And then second thing, this is gonna be the big word for this conversation is to ignite our imagination. So what you're doing when you're being resourceful like that, and you're taking these kinds of things that are around you, very, very narrow, again, like you're saying in your effects. limited assets and even in your environment, just kind of take the thing that's in front of you and then start using your imagination to fill in the blanks, right? And I wanna also call out one more thing that this is important to shout out is that, and because I wanted to acknowledge this, that you and I both have Filipino heritage. And I know talking from my mom, this is one thing that she always said growing up. Now she, being in the Philippines, at least in my mom's generation, she would say to me, we didn't have a lot of ... things, like not a lot of material things. Our current world, we're so gifted with so many devices, so many points of making that we could choose from. But they had some sticks, they had cow patties, what you would call, which was literally the dried cow poop. And they would figure

Mitsuko Ono:

Hehehe

Lianne:

it sounds disgusting, but these are things that these folks had, like maybe being Filipino, that's the quirk. but you can like take what's around you and they would make games out of these two things, sticks

and cow patties. And that's what I'm saying is like, it doesn't matter. You don't have to have the fanciest tools. You don't have to have a whole bunch of them. You have to have your imagination, right? And I think that's exactly what you're saying. And I love that this is kind of where we've landed. I think it's a really good note to end on too, because I think it's a great takeaway that hopefully our audience will be able to apply when they're kind of sitting around. maybe they're a little bit lost, or even if they're in the flow of creativity, to just continue to tap in the imagination, be resourceful with the things that you're using, and then do exactly what you're working on right now, which again, I applaud you, is the storytelling. You know that's kind of been my biggest thing for the last, at least, year. It's all about the story, because, you know, it may not always be great for AR, and it may not be something that we need to apply to 3D animation, but if you have your story, and you have it ... that imagination, then you can decide what tools you use. And that also broadens your opportunity to share to clients and to have client work too.

Lianne:

So it all kind of comes back full circle, but I think the takeaway here is absolutely that. And I thank you for being the catalyst to starting this conversation about imagination and creativity today. If you have some advice that you could give to younger Mitsuko, to your younger self, what would you say to yourself?

Mitsuko Ono:

If I knew that I would be in the AR field, I would have told myself to study coding

Lianne:

Same. I know.

Mitsuko Ono:

I think I can do a lot more if I knew how to do coding So I think my advice for people Especially the younger ones who want to be in this field Try to study like a lot of softwares um coding um design because I think that's what helped me um get to where I am right now it's because before I was kind of like a multimedia designer I also like worked in like audio so I have background in doing all of those things uh as I've said like video editing like working with audio um motion graphics so having all those knowledge with me and then I brought it into AR, it was kind of easier for me to transition into that because I already had some basic knowledge of everything. And I'm not really master level, but yeah, I have some knowledge, so it was easier to transition into that. So imagine if you're someone who knows really like... deep knowledge about everything, about design, about coding, about animation. You can do like really great things. So I suggest that you start studying, start learning, and don't waste your time. Of course there's time for fun, but remember time is gold. Like it literally is. If you think like one hour of just playing something or just... I don't know, like fooling around, that one hour spent on coding will give you so much knowledge. That one hour spent on learning animation will really take you far. So if you allocate some time a day to learning, I think that will really help you in the long run.

Lianne:

I love it. Thank you. I think that's such great advice. I as well, if I could tell younger Leanne, I would tell her the same thing too. I did start off coding, but not to the degree that we need it like JavaScript, I think is really important. Those kids, let's give a shout out to Unity. We have a lot of conversations about where we think Unity is useful right now and where it's going to be useful. So that might be another one for those that might be interested in pursuing this as a career. But then again, too, like the point of this conversation is, well, you can have all these tools, but if you don't have the story to tell, then you're just a jack of technical savviness and you don't have anything to share. So also work on cultivating that imagination, I think is really, really important. So yeah. one more thing that I wanted to share is that in this world, we have a lot of people who want to be the same as other people. So I think really finding your style, not trying to be someone else, is really important because if you don't want to be you, who would be you if you want to be someone else?

Mitsuko Ono:

You just have to appreciate what you are, find your own strengths, and just put it out to the world. Don't be shy because if you don't do it, no one else would do it for you. So just kind of develop a thick skin, even just a little bit, promote yourself, and don't be ashamed of what you can do. Just try to better yourself every day, promote yourself, and be authentically you. And I think you'll do great.

Lianne:

I mean, I can't enough with that, Mitsuko, because you are really a person. I know, like, even the conversations we've had over the years, you were very, very shy when I first met you. And I love how you're finding your voice, but it takes that courage. Like, it takes the courage, right? And you are going to have haters or you're going to have people, you know, like you in your own mind will be saying maybe, oh, my gosh, this isn't what people are used to seeing. And like you say, be shy about it. But if you if you're the one making the call on that It's you that's stopping yourself from coming out into the world. No one has said no to you yet, right? So I think the advice as well, like you're saying here, is just have the courage. And sometimes if you need someone to cheer you on, I'll guarantee you, myself, if anyone out there, and I think you're the same kind of person too, if you need someone to cheer you on, I'll do that for you. I think those of us who have been down this road of just overcoming that internal dialogue, saying it's not good enough, it's not right, it's not made for, like, just to mute all of that and we'll cheer you all on because everybody needs to hear the perspective and no one else can bring that, right? Like you have had such a very unique set of circumstance that has been able to bring your imagination and your cons, like the concepts that you come up with that you dream about literally to the world. No one else can produce that. So I love that piece of advice. That's so massive and like so important and it's like permission. So there you go everybody. If you needed it, you just got it. Mitsuko has given you all permission to be authentically you. I love that. Thank you so much, Mitsuko. That's the perfect way to end this conversation. I appreciate you so much for coming on and let's keep it going. Like we'll continue to kind of revisit these conversations. Maybe if it's just casually or whatever it might be. Let's actually tell the folks in our audience if they wanna see more Mitsuko, what is your social handle? So then we can, I'll drop those in the show notes, but also for people who are just listening to have a top of mind for them.

Mitsuko Ono:

I make effects on Instagram and TikTok. So my Instagram is at Mitsukokubota and my TikTok is at Mitsuko Ono. So that's just it. You can find me there.

Lianne:

Perfect. I love that. And folks, if you have not seen her work, I'm sure once you see one or two of her effects, you will be able to identify them moving forward to the future. We look forward to so much more of what you're producing. Can't wait and also don't wanna pigeonhole you into that one particular style. I know that, you know, that's another thing too, that people evolve their style and the progression of the evolution is also something that I love over observing the course. of an artist's lifetime to see, you know, how it aligns to the different lessons they've been learning as they've gone along. And I look forward to your evolution and you sharing it with us. So thank you again, Mitsuko. I deeply appreciate the time that you're taking to share your story with everybody. 

Mitsuko Ono:

Thank you, I want to thank everyone again, also even the Spark AR community. The Spark AR community will definitely cheer you on whatever effect you put out there. So thank you, thank you Lianne for having me here and thank you everyone for joining us today.

Lianne:

And until next time, as I say, always just stay curious and keep on creating!